Poetry from the
Innermost Recesses of the Heart: An Interview with D. C. Chambial
Dr. Nilanshu Kumar Agarwal
D.
C. Chambial, one of the significant contemporary
poets from Himachal Pradesh, started writing poetry
right from his school days. He has won the prestigious Michael Madhusudan Academy Award for his poetry. He has six books
of poetry to his credit. A number of students have written their Ph.D. and M.
Phil. dissertations on his works. His poems have been translated into
Portuguese, Spanish, Danish, German, French, Greek and, Bengali languages. He
also edits Poetcrit,
a bi-annual journal of literary criticism and contemporary poetry. This poetic
genius, who is called ‘a very promising poet’ by Prof. Shiv
K. Kumar, is engaged by Dr. Nilanshu Kumar Agarwal in an illuminating interview.
NKA: You
are quite a prolific poet with six collections. In your poetic corpus, do you
think all the poems are from the innermost recesses of your heart? Or, at some
times, is head more dominant than the heart? What are your views about the
origin of poetry in a poet? I think poetry is the bubbling of the excessive
emotions in the poet’s heart. But, if a poet is highly versatile, does every
poetic creation come out of the heart? Is this process possible throughout the
career of a poet? Or do you think at some moments, poetry is created by
intellect and scientific reasoning of the poet? Your ideas,
please.
DCC: Once again, you have also asked the same
question which other interviewers have often asked. These collections have come
out after I took to writing poetry about four decades ago. Then I was still in
my High School. The poems which were included in our syllabus, their themes and
music attracted me to compose my poems. Since then there has been no looking
back.
Yes, I very much believe that the
poems evolve from the deep recesses of one's heart. Absolutely, I agree with
your observation that "poetry is the bubbling of excessive emotions".
So is the case with me. All these poems have come up from the deeps of my
heart. I have often heard people saying that poems can be written at any time
about anything. Some workshops are also organized by some people/universities,
though little in
Creative process, in my case, has
always been like a river flowing without any pause. No time to think anything
besides concentrating on the images that flash upon my mind. This process is so
continuous that sometimes pen lags behind the movement of the mind, but once
the image has been captured, the words can be taken care of after finishing the
composition. Later on when I go through the poem the whole image reappears and
the missing word/words are given their due place.
Poetic creation, in my case, always
comes out of the heart. It has happened with me till date. About future, I
can't say. However, I can say it with the potency of certitude that so far I
have never composed any poem only with my head.
Intellect
and scientific reasoning do play their role but later on. When one sits to
revise after composition in one's leisure and if one also happens to be a
critic then one weighs the composition with intellectual and scientific
parameters.
NKA: Why do you write poetry? Is it to reform
the society or for self-pleasure? Or, is there no reason in the creation of
poetry? I suppose, it comes quite naturally and spontaneously to a poetic
heart. What do you think?
DCC: Why do I write poetry? Ha! Ha! Ha! Have
you ever asked any prospective mother/woman why does she give birth to her
child? Poems are poets' children. Poet is the mother. As a mother can't help
giving birth to her child in her womb, likewise, a poet also feels restless
unless he has delivered his poem conceived by some image/spectacle/idea,
matured in mind and nourished by heart. Since I started writing poetry, my idea
about creative writing has been out and out procreative.
The creative process is spontaneous without any inkling of society.
However, it is the pleasure that one gets while creating remains supreme. One
forgets everything else even one's own self. One merges with the thought, with
the image and work of creation is the result. Social reform, though it is one
endemic in the process, if the work aims at it, remains subaltern objective.
Reformation by poetry is one of its aim. Creation seen
from the viewpoint of the artist gives joy/pleasure first to the artist, at the
time of composition, and second, to the readers later on.
Yes, verily. Poetry, no, all work of
art, comes quite naturally and spontaneously to a poet/artist. Everything is
poetic provided we have that intuitive eye to see through the scheme of things
in nature. Tragedy and comedy are the two sides of life: they, when viewed with
discerning eye, also manifest the inherent poetry in it. Poetry is not only a
composition, metrical or based on its rhythm, but in its totality and brings
within its compass the whole creation, animate or inanimate.
NKA:
Why do release your poetic creations in English language? Can an alien
language express the native experience spontaneously? How will the natives of Himachal Pradesh—not well versed in English
language—comprehend the poetic upsurge of your heart? And how will the English
speaking people of alien culture/ other countries understand the poetry
suffused with Indian mythological references? My point is that Indian poetry in
English suffers from a terrible lack of readership. It can not be easily
comprehended both by the ordinary Indians and Englishmen. It is a poetry to be enjoyed, chiefly by the elite class of Indian
metros. What do you say?
DCC: Why to write in English, an alien
language? To me language does not belong to a particular place, confined within
geographical boundaries; or to specific group/community of people who have
learnt it in the lap of their mothers, but to those who can use it in their
communication whether oral or written. Good language is always learnt whether
by the native or alien speakers.
So far as the natives of Himachal Pradesh [or any part of our country] are concerned
, a writer writes to give vent to his own emotions and ideology without caring
for whether majority will understand or not. Even if the idea comes home to a
handful of men and women it is far better than to scatter it among the
multitude who fail to grasp its quintessence. [So far as English, as a
language, is concerned, there is mushrooming of English medium schools; every
Tom, Dick and Harry wants his children to be educated in such schools.] When an
artist paints something, does he care for how many of his neighbours or
countrymen will be able to comprehend/appreciate it? So, it is a relative
question. Those who know will appreciate. Similarly, those, who can read,
explore and interpret, (not paraphrase) a poem, will certainly appreciate it.
People in Himachal, as elsewhere, do read,
comprehend, and appreciate my poetry.
When it comes to English speaking
people of alien cultures of other countries, the basic tenets, the truths of
life everywhere remain the same, from prehistoric times to the present
technologically most advanced age; the technology is ever advancing. It makes
little difference to an artist/poet/writer. How do we, in
Readership.
Yes, readership is certainly less but that does not hinder the imagination of a
poet/artist. This idea for whom or how many one is creating/writing never
enters the mind of the artist. One creates because one has to create. Nothing
can impede creation. Here, I recall that all poems of Emily Dickinson were
found in her box after her death. She did not tell any body about them when she
was alive. It is only after her poems and their worth came to be known, her
poetry is being explored and enjoyed by the earnest students of literature as
well as the general reader alike.
Any
work of art is understood and interpreted only by the elite class or a few
only. How many of the common men know or comprehend Greek, Roman, or Byzantine
architecture; the works of Leonardo da Vinci, Van
Gogh, or Raphael; Webster, Shaw, Ibsen, Eliot, Rimbaud, Patanjali,
Bhartrihari,or Kalidas? It
is always one's learning and interest that matter. A man of less academic
qualification can be interested in the classics, while even a doctorate may be
disinterested. … Interest and one's inclination are the foremost ingredients to
enjoy any work of art. There have been writers/poets, like Kabir
and Tulsidas who never went to school, yet they are
everyman's writers. While Eliot, Pound, Yeats and Sri Aurobindo
are the centre of interest to the only few. …
NKA: What is the significance of nature symbols
in your poetry?
DCC: Symbols play significant role in poetry.
In poetry, the poet does not state something directly in plain words; if one
does so, it becomes flat. The poet uses economy of words and says, what he
wants to say, indirectly; then leaves it to the imagination of the reader to
capture his point of view. It has often been
noticed that various readers/critics interpret the same poem/work of art
differently. This imparts kaleidoscopic beauty to the poem or work of art.
Herein lies the beauty of any creation. Why diamond is
held so valuable? Certainly, for its quality of dispersion of
light seen differently from different angles.
Symbols, on the one hand, impart
economy to the work, and, on the other, imbue it with plurisignation
and ambiguity [Philip Wheelright & William Empson]; the charm of any poem lies in its mystery and/or
ambiguity. The pains, that one puts in in
demystifying this riddle, give immense joy to the student/reader in unravelling
that mystery or making sense of that ambiguity.
Human
life is integral with nature. They complement each other. One is incomplete
without the other. One cannot be severed from the other. Thus, nature symbols
go down in my poetry as naturally as "leaves to a tree". I think it
hard to live in the absence of nature. I think poetry jejune without nature. I
live in the lap of nature and cannot estrange myself from it. Do you remember
Wordsworth used to wander in nature whenever he got time to be one with it, to
enjoy it, to know it? While using nature
symbols, I, in my consciousness, thaw into nature and become one with it.
Transcendental mysticism also teaches so. Animate and inanimate all are one in
the Greater Consciousness.
NKA: Titles of some of your collections are highly
symbolic. For example, mark the titles-- Broken
Images, The Cargoes of the Bleeding
Hearts, Gyrating Hawks and Sinking
Roads and Before the Petals Unfold.
They are steeped in deep symbolism. What is the role of symbolism in poetry? Do
you think that poetry is a curved or pseudo statement, where artistic
excellence can be achieved through indirect communication of symbols and myths?
Please make a point.
DCC: Yes. I do agree with you. Most of the
titles of my poems and almost all collections are symbolic. These symbols,
particularly for me, give pleasure. They make the reader sit up and think about
the exact thing that the poet wants to suggest by using such symbols. In their
absence, I feel, the reader remains relaxed because
what a writer is saying goes directly to his mind. Symbols not only make the
reader alert, insinuate him to track the poet's thought and derive pleasure
from that. It is a basic human nature that when one gets something after
hard-work, one feels greater sense of joy and satisfaction than what one gets
when everything comes easily.
In this manner, I think, symbols give more delight and the bliss that
results from it and play a vital role in fulfilling one major objective of
giving pleasure. I personally do not relish a direct or flat poetry.
So far as calling symbols a "pseudo statement" is concerned,
the very nature of language is "curved" or "pseudo". In all
languages of the world, all words signify the things/emotions/associations for
which they are used. For example "Maranda"
or "Rae Bareilly" are the words [sound
symbols] used to suggest these two places; these could easily be given or could
have also been given to some other places. But the sounds, when spoken/heard,
and their written forms have since long been associated with these places
and such sounds or written forms
immediately bring to mind only these two places having, thus, become
"conventional" or "public" symbols. "A symbol, in the
broadest sense of the term, is anything which signifies something else; in this
sense all words are symbols" (MH Abrams).
It is, positively, an artistic device to achieve "artistic
excellence" as you have said. It is not the only artistic device but it is
without doubt one of the other artistic devices used by artists to attain
creative brilliance and quality in their art besides imparting pleasure to the
artist at the time of creation and later to the reader/audience. Use of myths,
allusions – literary or historical – similes, metaphors are some other devices
used to realize this effect. Each artist/poet uses his own device with his own
preference and liking. As no two individuals are alike, similarly the styles
and devices that various artists use differentiate them from one another and
impart individual character to their work. This is how I look at it.
NKA: How will you describe your Haiku poems?
Are they close to your heart? Are they suitable for Indian readers? Please
comment.
DCC: Haiku poems: yes, I do compose haiku
poems but very rarely. There are poets, like Dr Ameeruddin,
Dr. R. K. Singh, and Mrs. Urmila Kaul
besides others, who compose haiku poems copiously. Haiku writing, basically a
Japanese genre of poetry, is epigrammatic in manner and describes an
instantaneous response of the poet. More and more Indian poets are following
it. As an editor, I receive so many haiku poems from so many poets who divide
any thought, at times, even a sentence into three lines of 5, 7, and 5
syllables and call it haiku. If one wants to write haiku, one has to imbibe the
very spirit, besides technique, of the haiku. POETCRIT has published articles
on haiku in its some past issues with an aim of apprising its readers with
haiku.
So far as haiku composition is concerned, I am trying to learn how to
write one. Sometimes, I, myself, feel that I have strayed away from the spirit
of haiku and failed to furnish a perfect one.
Haiku is an imported, yet important, technique of composing poems.
Certainly, it will take its time to get home in
I have always been optimistic in
everything. Change is the law of nature. "Old order changeth
yielding place to new …." otherwise even good things of this world would
become stale and monotonous. It is the change that keeps interest alive not
only in art but also in life.
NKA: As editor of the prestigious journal Poetcrit, what do you think are the major
problems, faced by the creative poets and critics in
DCC: Creative poets and critics, I think, don't have any
problem, so far as publication in magazines and journals is concerned. Editors
only seek subscription to keep their journals alive. There is only one
criterion that poems and critical writings should conform to the publication
standards of such magazines and journals.
NKA: What will you say about the
publisher-author relationship in
DCC: Publisher-author relationship has never
been cordial. Publishers demand money from the author, who is not so well off.
Second, they do not accept matter for publication on its worth but on the
popularity of the name of the author(s). One thing, these publishers should
keep in mind, that all those renowned names were not born famous.
There are some problems, mainly on the part of the publishers: they
should, in stead of flatly refusing the new authors or asking for huge sums of
money from them, weigh and consider the worth of the matter submitted for
publication. If there are certain flaws or short comings that should be pointed
out to the author(s), then they (authors) will not feel affronted and try to
improve their worth. In case the matter is worthy of publication, it should be
published. Here, I can cite the example of Mulk Raj Anand's world famous story
'The Lost Child' was turned down by seven magazines but was later considered
one of the best stories of the world. His first novel, Untouchable, whose publication was rejected by 19 publishers for
more than four years and the 20th also accepted it only after E. M. Forster
agreed to write Preface to it. After publication, they became classics of their
own kind. It is universal problem and not confined to
The problem with publishers is that they, first of all, say yes and
demand huge amount from the author for the publication of the matter/book
saying that this amount is only a part of the total expenditure worked out.
With that amount the author himself can publish the book. Those writers who
make payments after being lured of after-sale royalty, they either never get
that or get only a fraction. The publisher enjoys the lion's share and deceives
the author.
NKA: In the contemporary era, INTERNET has
entered into every sphere of life. Can this wonder of Information Technology
provide some avenues for the authors? An author can easily get his work
published on some websites and blogs. What are your
views about this e-publishing? Do people take it seriously? Please explicate.
DCC: Yes, it is now beyond doubt that the
present times may well be termed as an era of Information Technology Or, precisely, an age of INTERNET. Well said, now an author
can publish his works on websites and blogs. But, how
many of us are able to do so? There are places where there is no access of this
technology and where there is, it suffers because the service providers care
only to charge their fee and bother little to provide quality service.
So far, I think, most of the authors are not well versed in this
technique. If they ever try their hand at it, problems associated with computer
hamper their work and dampen their spirit. However, the younger generation
feels quite aflame about it. I personally feel, in the future e-publishing will
completely take over this job.
Nonetheless, one feels that the joy one gets from books can never be got
from e-publishing keeping in view the handicaps associated with it. One can
pick up any book at one's leisure at any time which may not be possible with
e-publishing. Times are moving ahead and who would like to lag behind?
NKA: What are your views about contemporary literary
criticism in
DCC: Present literary criticism has dwindled down to be
repetitive one. Yet, quality criticism is not completely obliterated. Those who
believe in quality are silently doing their job. Those who want to earn name by
publishing a large number of papers/books do not hesitate even to borrow ideas
from other critics and, at times, even shamelessly copy pages from other
critics. I know a large number of those belonging to both categories, but it
would be wise not to divulge.
NKA: Are the syllabi of English Studies in
DCC: I do agree with you that regional
authors in translation be included in the syllabi at the U.G. and P.G.
levels. English literature does not now
necessarily mean the literature of
The interviewer Dr.Nilanshu Kumar Agarwal
is Senior Lecturer in English at